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R2RB Podcast - Indie Artists and Women Entrepreneurs Chronicles
Where Indie Artists and Women Entrepreneurs share their journeys.
We sit down with indie musicians from diverse genres, shedding light on their personal and professional experiences. From the euphoria of their first gigs to the challenges of carving a niche in the industry, R2RB Podcast is your backstage pass to these rising stars' raw and unfiltered narratives.
We also embark on a journey of Women Entrepreneurs and share their inspiration, amplifying the voices and stories of remarkable women entrepreneurs. Join us as we delve into the worlds of visionary leaders, innovators, and trailblazers who are rewriting the rules and reshaping industries.
We look forward to sharing your journey!
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R2RB Podcast - Indie Artists and Women Entrepreneurs Chronicles
From Church Choirs to the Indie Scene with Chris of Bone Locker
What essentials would a musician take to a deserted island? Join us on an enlightening journey with Chris Mitchell, aka BoneLocker, as we unravel his intriguing creative process and musical evolution. Starting with a playful hypothetical, we gain insight into Chris's practical yet artistic mindset. From his early days experimenting with instruments during homeschooling to forming bands like Felix and Fever Dream, Chris's story is one of determination and passion. Listen as he shares his experiences using modern tech tools like GarageBand, contrasting them with older methods, and revealing how these innovations have shaped his songwriting.
Chris's journey unfolds further as he recounts the story of Opportune, a band born out of a personal and musical partnership with his wife. Their shared history in church and connection to notable musicians like Buddy Holly sets the stage for their collaborative success. As Chris talks about his song "Sovereign God" and others, the importance of synergy and timing in music becomes clear. We also explore how indie artists today can leverage social media platforms to engage with audiences. By sharing personal insights and educational content, Chris demonstrates that genuine connections are possible without a hefty advertising budget.
As we wrap up, we offer invaluable advice for aspiring indie artists, touching on the power of authenticity and hard work. Chris highlights the significance of maintaining one's true self while navigating the industry, using examples like Oliver Anthony. With upcoming releases on the horizon, including a special tribute for Veterans Day, Chris continues to captivate audiences with his heartfelt narratives. Tune in to discover his plans for new music and how platforms like Patreon offer a unique avenue for artist-fan interaction. Whether you're a longtime fan or new listener, this episode promises to inspire and engage.
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Hi and welcome to the R2RB Indie Artist Podcast. And today I have with me Chris Mitchell, aka BoneLocker. And Chris, thank you so much for joining me. How are you?
Speaker 2:Doing well. How are you?
Speaker 1:I'm good, thank you, Not bad for a Monday night. So I always like to ask two questions to get us warmed up. And the first one is if you were stranded on a deserted island, what three things would you want with you?
Speaker 2:That's a tough one. So probably an instrument of some sort. But now that I'm thinking about, if I was on an island, I could probably craft some instruments out of you know, trees or coconuts or something.
Speaker 2:So but an instrument of some sort probably a guitar, but an instrument of some sort, probably a guitar, probably want something to write on, which I'm sure I could make as well, but on a desert island I would want an instrument and probably at least one other person, probably my wife that would be nice if we can save people Right, people right and probably some type of hunting implement, either a spear or a knife or a gun or something, because I'm sure I could make something also, but it probably would not be very good I like those.
Speaker 1:I like those. Yeah, those would definitely work all right, and let's see what's your favorite app on your phone and why.
Speaker 2:Probably favorite app is GarageBand and just because it's really cool for recording and then I actually just started using it. I've used it for years on on, you know, my Mac and when I went to school uh, we use that when I was in in college for recording and sound and stuff. But I've always been an Android guy and within recent years I have gotten an iPhone also actually have both now. So I use garage band on my iPhone and really was kind of a huge inspiration for the previous album that I put out and a lot of the songs and ideas came from that. So just anything from like I hear a chord progression in my head that I like I can just pick it up and program the chord progression or, you know, play the little. They have a little touch guitar you can strum on there or just pluck it out on the piano.
Speaker 2:Um, that, and then also they've got like loops galore, that drum, you know drum beats and and other instruments. That just listening to those and starting from maybe a drum beat and hearing a song come from that it's just been really I've got probably 100 to 200, just like either full songs or ideas on the iPhone in this, in the garage man. So it's it's been really fun and and inspirational, kind of a new way to think about songwriting than just picking up a guitar and playing, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, cause I've asked the question to other indie artists about. You know what happens with all the ideas and the music that runs through your head. How do you get something quick enough to write it down? And so for you, it would be GarageBand. Yeah, that's really cool. And then, being an Android and then an iPhone, do you prefer one over the other?
Speaker 2:Well, I mean, I use Android for basically everything else and I tried finding an app on for basically everything else, and I tried finding an app on Android that was comparable, and there are a couple. They just aren't as intuitive and don't work as well as GarageBand. So there's a website and an app called BandLab and it's pretty cool because it has a lot of the same features and it has loops and you can collaborate with other people on that as well.
Speaker 1:But it's pretty cool because when you, that's really cool because when you think about it, you know, with um growing me, growing up, and what we not me personally, but what the musicians would use back, you know, in the sixties, seventies, to, you know, put it all together and here, here, here we are. Now you can pick up your phone and put a whole song together. It's amazing. Oh my God, I really have to look into that one myself. All right, so, chris, you are a singer, songwriter, but I want to ask the question about Bone Locker, the name of your band, project, project, band, what would you call it?
Speaker 2:Uh, I mean, so I started it with something other than my name, because for a couple of reasons. One was because there are several other musicians that are already somewhat popular with my same name, and so the goal was and there's so many bands and groups and musicians right now, you know, it's just, it's like easier than ever to record something and get it put out there, just like you said, compared to previous generations. Yes, so I started it as like a solo project, but with a with a band name, so that way, if it grew in the future, it could be a group of people, not just under my name.
Speaker 1:Okay, and then the name itself, bone Locker.
Speaker 2:Piggybacking what I said about trying to find a name that not already 10 other bands have, which is very hard. I started just looking at different things. I was looking up old English things, different things. I was looking up old English things. I was looking up you know names and other languages for certain things, trying to find something that kind of struck me, and I had a list of several and I found this article that was.
Speaker 2:It was like 10 old English terms we should think about bringing back or something like that, and there were several in there that I thought were kind of cool. But then there was one that was bone locker and except in the old English it was like B-A-N-L-A-C-K-A, bon locker, I guess how they would have said it, but it was a term for the human body. So we are just like a locker full of bones. You know, it's basically all it is just holding our bones in, and I was like that's kind of cool. And more I thought about it I was like that's kind of all we are is just like a, a physical shell holding together our skin and bones and muscles, but so much deeper inside, you know, with our soul and our spirit and our mind.
Speaker 1:Oh, wow, I know there's some unusual names of band soloists, but this one I really liked that one, that one I will have to like bring up on a trivia night or something, because that I don't. I know I've never heard of it before. I know I had read something about it, about you with the bones, and I was actually I couldn't remember the other night. I was like I know it's something to do with the bones and I was actually I couldn't remember the other night. I was like I know it's something to do with the bones and a box, or the physical or so.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, that's really really cool. And I kind of thought about I was thinking about other kind of folk artists that have, you know, that are solo mostly but have kind of band names, like a city in color is one, and then iron and wine is a really popular one. You know, that's basically one guy. When it came out it was just him, you know. So I was thinking about that, like well, I could still just be me and I go under the moniker, but if it grows to be a band, right, you know it's not just the chris mitchell band there you go.
Speaker 1:No, that definitely works either way. That's great. I like that all right. So your musical background starts way back when you were young. In fact, you come from a musical family, correct?
Speaker 2:I do, yeah. So my grandparents played instruments, aunts and uncles, everybody and I started singing in church with my parents and my sister my sister is about seven and a half years older than me, so as early as five or six, you know we'd all sing specials at church together. That's so cool, so that and then the whole family when we'd get together for holidays Thanksgiving, christmas we I have three other three uncles, my dad has one of four and so we would go to either grandma and grandpa's house or one of the uncle's houses or our house, kind of switching off between Thanksgiving and Christmas. While I was younger and all the uncles and great uncles and aunts and other cousins and stuff played guitar, banjo, mandolin, bass, fiddle.
Speaker 1:We'd have hand drums, djembes from time to time, you had your own orchestra.
Speaker 2:Pretty much and my uncles were big into bluegrass, going to bluegrass festivals and playing in the jams and stuff like that it was really neat. I'd been to a couple of those, so just seeing them growing up every holiday and wanting to be more a part of it than just singing along. Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1:So did you pursue music in school? Were you in the band orchestra, anything that had to do with music?
Speaker 2:A little different. I was homeschooled for fourth, fifth and sixth grade and I went to public school before that. But my mom wanted me to do something. So I just had music in school before that. But my mom wanted me to do something, so I didn't just had, you know, music in school before that, but my mom wanted me to do music while she was homeschooling so she can play a little piano, played trumpet in in band in school. So they got me a trumpet and tried that and I was like not a big fan, I'm sure, and trying to get my words just right, it was too tough from the get-go. So she's like well, I know a little bit of piano. We had a piano at the house or a keyboard, I don't remember which. But she showed me some of the notes and I'd pluck them out and I was like, yeah, still kind of boring not for me and so my dad was one of the you know, one of the four brothers.
Speaker 2:He was the youngest and one of the few that actually kind of didn't keep playing guitar as he got older.
Speaker 1:Oh, wow.
Speaker 2:So when I was 12, he bought a guitar off eBay and when it came in he was going to intend on playing it and just kind of sat there and I pulled it out one day and I remember plucking a couple of the strings. I was like that sounds familiar. And um, on a guitar, if you play DG and B like you can pluck out a lot of amazing grace. And that's what I had ended up playing and I was like that sounds really familiar. So just that enough of a kind of catch caught you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I liked the way it sounded, I liked the way it felt holding it and, you know, feeling it resonating on on your chest when you're playing guitar. It just really struck me, and so I got about a month of lessons from a guy that played at our church and then went myself through the rest of the the book that he had me start learning the notes. And since I was homeschooled and the internet was, you know, still pretty new, right, that would have been late 90s, early 2000s yeah, late 90s, I guess. And I, just, just, like a sponge, started looking up music theory articles and anything I could learn about guitar. If youtube would have been around back then you would have been on it learn about guitar.
Speaker 2:if YouTube would have been around back then, you would have been on it For learning? Yeah, I would have. But yeah, just reading articles and tabs and all that stuff, just really kind of.
Speaker 1:You got the bug Started back then, Now, did you go to public school then after sixth grade?
Speaker 2:I did. I actually went to a private school then from seventh to when I graduated, and it was a private Christian school, so they had a pep band and it was really bad. It's not a very good band, oh no. So I was not excited about being in that because I played guitar and I thought that was way cooler. Anyway, right, I wish I would have played.
Speaker 2:Now I would like to be able to play some band instruments but, we actually had devotions every Tuesday and when I came to the school I joined the worship team and we would have worship practice basically as our music class and learn new songs and work together and stuff like that, and then we lead worship at our devotion on Tuesday.
Speaker 1:Oh nice, oh, I like that. And were you in any bands outside of that later on or during?
Speaker 2:I was so about 14 or 15, I joined a couple bands. Some kid down the street got a drum set and then a friend of his got a bass guitar and we started a punk band.
Speaker 1:So that's where you got to start with the punk.
Speaker 2:Pretty much. We mostly played Blink-182 and MXPX and we wrote a couple songs. That was fun. We went by Felix that was the name that we had. Then my cousin actually played drums and so the first drummer kid kind of got phased out and my cousin joined and we still went under Felix and then we actually played quite a bit of original music, played some shows around Clovis, new Mexico, where I grew up, and then when I was about 15, we got a new pastor in his from California and his son played guitar and drums and bass and stuff and he'd actually recorded some stuff in California a teacher that he had at school. So when he moved I was like man, this guy plays guitar, we need to get together. So I actually started playing drums. He kind of taught me how to play drums oh cool, some basic beats and stuff because he started as a drummer and I taught him some stuff on guitar and he, oh, yeah, you know, make, make sure I was playing the right stuff on drums.
Speaker 2:So we got together and um called that fever dream that was our we were kind of more of a grunge heavy metal kind of kind of band we did. We actually recorded like three or four cds. Oh wow, together I got a little go you christmas that year and we bought some radio shack microphones and we just kind of grilled it and, you know, had our little studio in the side of in the garage of his, his parents house and there you go.
Speaker 1:I love it. I love how things get started, because I know it's. It's the pathway to where you are now. Um, you know the Christian music to punk, to metal too. So that brings you to. Maybe let's take it to the end of high school. Where did you, where did you go from there?
Speaker 2:So I graduated and, um, I had been leading worship at the youth group for our church since I was about 13. About a year after I started playing guitar, I started leading worship for the youth group. Then I started playing in big church a couple years later. I'd fill in from time to time whenever worship leader wasn't there. I intended on that being my vocation, if not one of my vocations, and then, you know, I met my wife and decided I was going to go to south plains college, which is here in leveland leveling in texas, texas.
Speaker 2:It's only about 70, 80 miles from where I grew up across the state line, but big history in at south plains college for country music and bluegrass music, um, tom tom hall is one of the big ones from this area, of course, buddy holly oh my god, yeah you know grew up in lubbock and kind of funny story about buddy real quick is my uncle played bass with him big before they were Buddy Holly and the Crickets and our family story is actually kind of goes that he wrote Peggy Sue and Every Day and a couple other big hits that Buddy just kind of took as his own. And so my uncle was Don Guess and so you know Buddy Tom Hall, several other people you know. Waylon Jennings is from Littlefield, that's about 30 miles from where we are.
Speaker 2:South Plains College is a really reputable name in like sound and audio production and the path I chose was commercial music, which is more just, kind of like the all encompassing like business side of it and some of the recording and some of the live sound and the performance and the writing. There was some of all of it in program. So my wife and I got married she was going to start school as well, so we both started um, took a year off and then started once we kind of got established here and so went to school for that and just it was so much fun.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh, well, yeah, well, being able to talk about Buddy Holly first of all. You know, you knew them. When you know that's what I always say to a lot of indie artists you know, I know you now and you are going to go to places and don't forget us. That is so cool. Oh my gosh, okay. So then did you and your wife. Is that singing together, writing together? How did that come into play?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so she sang as well growing up. And once we got together, you know she was singing in church and stuff and she'd sing in the worship band and I actually taught her to play drums, oh wow. And so she started playing drums in the worship band while while we were in high school together too. So that continued once we got married, you know she played drums, uh, at the first church that we went to, that I started leading worship out there in level land as well and would sing with me and stuff. I don't know. I think the writing started. I mean, I had written songs. You know, like I said, we had originals when I was 14 or 15.
Speaker 1:You've been writing for for quite a while.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think she probably like wrote poetry and stuff like that too. So we just I would get stuck and be like hey, can you think of a line for this or help me finish this, which I still do, you know. So we started writing and I think you know one of the ones that we have under opportune is sovereign God, and that's one of the first ones that we wrote Beautiful song, thank you.
Speaker 2:And uh, yeah, that one, we just like it was super quick. I don't remember I think I had the when I'm on the mountain, you ran on high. When I'm on the valley, you saved my life. And then I kind of showed that to her and the progression I was thinking of and she just is like keep playing that, keep playing that. So I'm playing and you know she's here and we wrote it in like five or 10 minutes, just fleshed the whole thing out.
Speaker 1:I think that's just so awesome when you get a singer, a singer-songwriter and another singer-songwriter that are able to collaborate that well that you don't even have to think about it, that it just the two of you just blend it together and then it all comes together.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and she'll like the one he's on the Throne, the most recent one we put out, which has been about a year. We've got several other songs that we've written. Just finding the time for both of us to sit down you know she was going to finish in a cosmetology degree and started working, and you know I'm working, and so finding the time where both of us can sit down and dedicate a good amount of time to get it, get it tracked is is is tough, but it is tough, but yeah, the throne, that most recent one that we did.
Speaker 2:I don't remember. We were on the way back from somewhere. She was driving back and she like dictated it to my daughter who was in the passenger seat. She's like, I got idea for a song like right, and then she came home and showed it to me and I was like this is great. So I just sat at the piano and started, you know, playing that and that is amazing one of the best that we've done together.
Speaker 1:So oh my god, yeah, so what was the first? Uh, which song that you first put together?
Speaker 2:so, oh, for me and jessica was uh, sovereign, god, sovereign god, okay.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I've listened to that one. That's a beautiful, beautiful one too. So how did you come about with opportune then?
Speaker 2:We've kind of gone under that name for a while. I think the Facebook we started back in like 2008. And I just kind of had that idea for the name. And it was another one where I like kind of a play on words like tune opportune. You know, like I kind of had to tagline the right tune at the right time and so a little cheesy.
Speaker 1:but it works.
Speaker 2:On our either sound, I think, soundcloud, reverb Nation. We did some stuff under Opportune for that. I recorded a whole album it's like eight songs back in I don't remember when, it was probably mid 2010s, maybe 2015, something like that. 2016 had about eight songs on there, had Sovereign God on there and a couple other ones that one's on, I believe that's on our soundcloud and then we had done um christmas albums. We started giving those as gifts to our family as well. So how cool, five or six christmas songs and, you know, package it and give it to family members along with a gift. Or, you know, when times are tough, maybe our own, yeah but that's the best gift, that's, that's awesome right?
Speaker 2:oh, my god, I think so one of those is on, I think, soundcloud as well. It's called the manger we put on a christmas album called the manger and I just decided to put it out. It was before I really knew how easy it was to just distribute to everywhere you know it's a full-time job, though what's that?
Speaker 1:it's a full-time job distributing and putting you know your recordings out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I had to carve out time just to upload all the songs and the lyrics and all that stuff.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah it's. There's a lot of work that goes on behind the scenes of of your passion, with you, know, you and your wife, uh, with the music, just to then finally get it out to everybody else in the airwaves and everything. During that time, were you thinking about going and doing Bone Locker, or where did you take the turn for to leave, not to leave because you haven't left. Left her, thank God. But you know to turn over to Bone Locker. But you know to turn over to Bone Locker.
Speaker 2:I within the last couple of years being on Facebook, and I joined like a GarageBand users group on Facebook Once. I kind of started getting more into GarageBand and I just saw so many people that like every couple of weeks or every month they were like I got a new song, what do you think I got a new song? What do you think I got a new song, what do you think? And there were people that were, you know, releasing this stuff and getting thousands, if not tens or a hundred thousands of plays on their music, and there were several that I was like this really isn't that great. You know, like some of them I was like man, these people are putting stuff out and, um, I'm not doing anything with the things that I've written before, the things that I'm writing now. You know, I've got notebooks full of stuff that I've written from time to time, or little voice notes, like I said. So it was kind of that partnered with garage band on the phone and just more of just capturing those ideas as they come.
Speaker 2:I had like a bunch of songs and song ideas that I was working through and, you know, opportune is more kind of worship and you know, and you can kind of hear that from the ones that I put out, I think you will never leave is the first one that I we put out under opportune and that one was pretty much me because I was still working with recording and stuff and and figured out how to get garage band on the computer to work well for me. So you will never leave is basically just my guitar and me and the guy that played drums for me. So that's a little more folky kind of more bone knocker ish. And then the rest of them that we have are a little more worship kind of contemporary Christian. And then there's one called Monday that I think I think is a really fun song, I mean it's kind of like a power pop, yep yeah.
Speaker 2:And so I kind of was trying to figure out like our style and then I kind of started writing more stuff. There was a little more folky. We went on a vacation for about a week and I I no-transcript doesn't really fit with the opportune style and so just as an outlet for those more you know folky singer song right, he brought it writer type songs. I was like I'll just start something else and split them and see how it goes.
Speaker 1:Well, so far it's going really well.
Speaker 2:I think so.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. Yeah, I mean that's great. I mean the Christian side of of, with you and your wife to be able to collaborate together, um, and and I had trying to think cause I, I read so much Sometimes it all becomes a blur but I knew in the back of my mind I had heard, jessica, you had something you had written on Facebook, and that's how I found out that there was, uh, you and your wife had were doing the opportune, and I got to listen to all that Um and so, and then to carry yourself over into bone locker, um, into a different job, well, I don don't know, it is a different genre, right, but it's just. I mean, it's just the both sides of you are just phenomenal. Yeah, and and to I just think it's always great that you're able to collaborate with you know, with your wife or your partner, whoever you're working with, and then to have also, as you have, bone locker and, and that side of you, you have a beautiful voice and your music is beautiful and bringing it all together.
Speaker 1:You're, you're welcome, um, I love it, um, and you also do, you do reels on instagram, you do lives on youtube, you do, you do all these little things that I don't necessarily see other indie artists doing, but I think it's something for you know that I see with you really draws attention, which you would. That's what you want to yourself, but it's not like in your face. You always have such a very calming aspect about yourself and you're explaining things and you're sharing your music. Um, did that come easy to you?
Speaker 2:I get, yeah, kind of. I mean it definitely takes some work and really in these modern times without record labels and as much as so many artists are just completely independent from a bunch of other content creators that I've seen, I mean that's a job these days, content creation. You know you're an influencer and you just make videos every couple of days or once a week and upload them. I think in the independent music space you have to be a content creator as well If you want to have any kind of attention and you know, if you don't have money to be spending, to be paying for ads all the time, then you got to work on videos that catch people's attention, or posts that catch people's attention, and the ones you know doing some research about that and and things that catch people's attention. The one that I found that most people like is is when they get something out of a video. You know, of course everybody loves the, the funny cat videos, and you know people falling and things like that.
Speaker 2:And there's the viral videos. That's that catch people's attention and it's you know, just something crazy. Yeah, you know something crazy that happens. Or a guy that I saw I don't remember his name, he was like doing really good at this and he had this song coming out and he had these, this series of reels, where it's just him and his guitar plugged into an amp and he would play a part of the song and then it would like transition to him somewhere else, like he was on one. I remember the elevator doors were closing as he's playing this and then the elevator doors open and he's like outside in the backyard playing.
Speaker 2:It's like a beach party going on, you know, and it was something that was like, oh, you know, that's really neat, but, but more than that, what I saw being successful was when the audience gets something out of it. It's not just, oh cool, that's a neat song, correct, but it's something that they can be like. Oh, I learned something from that Exactly. Oh, I appreciate that Within the last couple of months, I started doing some music education or guitar education, along with the, the, the songs that I was doing.
Speaker 2:You know, every couple of reels I'd have promoting a song or me singing a song. And then one that I did was when I played my guitar in what's called Nashville tuning and that is on the first song, the fires within from the new album. There's a guitar in there that's layered in. That's in Nashville Tuning. Oh, my God, amazing. I got like I think it's close to 300,000 views on that video on just Facebook and it's like 15 or 20 on YouTube and I got quite a few on TikTok and I got maybe 10,000 on Instagram, so close to 500,000 views collectively, which was pretty good for me, absolutely. You know, people get that in a day sometimes, you know, getting lots of comments and people like I didn't know what this was. I never heard of this and so I that was kind of the turn point for me, like okay, I can do this, I can make a little bit educational. But then I also mentioned my song in there, like hey, this tuning is is in my new song, the fires within.
Speaker 1:So I love that and I love it. I love that and I'll tell you why. Um, because Facebook has been making everybody crazy, and it's a discussion I've had before with others and it's this follow for follow and that's great because we all do, we all want followers and we all want people to. You all want people to listen to your music, but where you take it to a different level is that personalization. We are even just like this interview, not that they're gonna see you, but you know you're putting yourself out there. You're saying, okay, this is who I am. You know I'm just not putting out songs because you know just to make the money, which that comes later.
Speaker 1:Um, but you know you're giving of yourself, you're showing them your passion. They can see your passion, they can hear you, which I think just makes, takes it to another level. That you're able, or we, we are able. To those who you know love to listen to bone locker, I can really say gosh, you know, did you catch that? Where you know Chris was talking about? You know, whatever you might have been talking about and not, in fact, I really haven't seen the only other person that I would say OK, let me take it back, all those words. One of the other people that does that is Centel, who you have worked with, which I just think makes a big difference, because then you really get followers who really do listen to your music, I think. What do you think?
Speaker 2:yeah, I agree, and you know, with the views, of course there's going to be people that are like, oh, that's a cool video and just automatically click follow, of course, which you know you hope happens right, and I did, and it was really cool to see that and I got hundreds of followers from that one video, you know, and I did another one, a couple maybe, I think I was trying to do like one a week, so I would do that, and then I would do a couple other reels and then do a more educational one, and I did one on a different tuning that I used in the song mountains, and that one got quite a few views too and I got followers from that, and so that was, you know, the goal.
Speaker 2:And um Jack Conti from Patreon that started Patreon, which I think is a really cool website and a great idea, has talked about how TikTok kind of ruined the algorithms for Facebook and Instagram being follower based, where we're going to show you people that you follow. Facebook used to be, you know, like when I use it as my personal Facebook, I used to see friends stuff all the time. Right now it's, you know, sports entertainment and every other one's an ad and it's showing me content that it thinks that I want to see because of previous interactions I've had or whatever Right? So TikTok kind of turned the whole follower model on its head and it has this algorithm that says, okay, you follow these people, so we're going to show you people like them that we think you'll like. It's kind of gotten harder to get loyal fans that see you and engage with your content. You know consistently.
Speaker 1:Right, exactly.
Speaker 2:And I was kind of late to the game on Tik TOK, which I regret because I was just kind of against it out of principle from the beginning, all the silly dance videos and the way people would blow up.
Speaker 1:It was crazy in the beginning.
Speaker 2:Yeah, people, they're just, they're doing a dance and they're getting millions of views and getting you know deals. And then I was, when I, when I started, I was like I've just got to be on it Like it's so much opportunity for different people on their younger demographic and things like that.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, I think it's hard to get people that are followers, that are loyal to, not just you know, click and like on a Facebook post, but sharing your stuff and and really listening to the music. And again, jack Conti one of his videos I've seen where he was like look, you can have 10,000, 100,000, 500,000 million subscribers, whatever. I don't remember exactly what he said, but basically he was like if you can have this small core of even just a thousand followers that are loyal, that you engage with on a consistent basis, either through Patreon or now discord is the big thing. Like I'm a part of Mark Johnston's Discord and we play trivia and you know everybody talks about song ideas for him to sing on his lives and it's really fun. I enjoy that.
Speaker 2:And if you can get a thousand like core supporters that are loyal to you. And just think about if you have a Patreon where people pay $5 a month, which is not much. You know, a cup of coffee at Starbucks that's $5,000 a month. Come into your pocket for engaging with a small portion of your fan base.
Speaker 2:So, it's making those loyal subscribers, those loyal fans. That's kind of the difficult thing and that's why I try to be more personal and engaging in those videos and not just be like here's a video of me jumping off a trampoline and breaking my guitar or something.
Speaker 1:Yes, and we don't want you to do that Because there's nothing personal about that. Exactly.
Speaker 1:That's what a thousand other people do, to go viral, that's right, and that's why, when you know we first talked the other day on the phone and you had talked about this, I think so many of the younger indie artists coming on board now that's all they want is a follower. You know that's what they want, and then you know it's tough for them to do anything else but get the follows and to make any money other and off of social media as well. So, yeah, well, and I appreciate you sharing all that Because I, as I said, I've asked this question before because I want to be able to eventually down the road, you know, I think, more indie artists like yourself and Sintel and Asphalt Jungle, who have perhaps a different perspective on the industry and how you all approach it. I think there needs to be a more round table discussion on that, so we'll have to talk again about that down the road to tell us about you, tell us about your first album, which came out in 2023,.
Speaker 2:June 2023. So, getting back to like, when I started this, I wasn't sure the kind of genre direction that I wanted to go because, like I said, it started in punk, did some heavy metal when I was younger and, being that that was kind of in my formative years, I still enjoy that kind of music and I listened to it quite a bit. So I didn't know what this was going to be, and especially writing on the phone on GarageBand. A lot of it was kind of just more melodies and chord progressions and stuff that could kind of go anywhere right, and I actually had quite a few that were a little bit more on kind of like the electronic side.
Speaker 2:But I'm not comfortable with. I don't listen to a whole lot of that right. A lot of some of the heavier music I listen to has that in there like maybe industrial, kind of like nine inch nails type sound, um, just that heavier kind of distorted electronic sound. But I didn't know that I could kind of like nine inch nails type sound, just that heavier kind of distorted electronic sound, but I didn't know that I could kind of faithfully write music in that, in that genre. So what I've always known is just picking up a guitar and, and you know, singing with it writing a song.
Speaker 2:So GarageBand kind of helped spur the process process along and get these ideas. But then I kind of brought those over and finished them either at the guitar or piano or whatever, and I've always liked the idea of just having you know real instruments and music.
Speaker 2:I like that a lot and it's kind of more of a struggle in recording because you have all these real instruments that have conflicting frequencies and all this stuff that you've got to kind of mix through. So I kind of felt like it was more of a fun challenge for me. So I decided to go more for like the folk and I love that too. You know everything. I listen to a lot of that and it's pretty popular now. Yeah, I think, with like noah khan and bon Ivers come back with, yeah, you know, a new song that he just put out the other day. So I started writing songs kind of more in that in that vein and and had 10 or 15 that I was working on and just was writing all the time and I finally decided, you know, like I've got to kind of drill down and figure out what I want on this album and the more songs I kept writing, they just kind of were more all about kind of like life and looking at the past and living in the past or looking to the future. And looking at the past and living in the past or looking to the future, and I wrote the song the Road. One day I was headed to take the kids to school and as we were going we drive east to go towards our school on the highway the sun was just kind of peeking out through the clouds, like real thin, wispy clouds, you know, and the sun was rising as I'm taking them to school and it was just peeking out and so I had that, that first line, driving into the sunrise. I can't think of it right now. The sun, I'll have to look it up now Cause, yeah, so like driving into the sun, I was like, oh, driving into the sunrise, the clouds let the sun peek through, like eyes looking through blinds I shield mine at the sight of you. So you know, just kind of the the trying to make it a picture of what I saw that time, you know, so the sun's bright when it's coming up and it's it's peeking through the clouds and it's it's bright. You put the sun visor down and then I, you know, I finished the first verse and I and I thought it'd be kind of cool to write it kind of about a whole day. So the sunrise is like the beginning of your life and you continue through life and now you're in middle age, which is I, you know about where I'm at now, and the sun's at high noon and and everything kind of seems all right and it's kind of settled. You know, maybe there's no, not a cloud in the sky, and then as the sun sets, you know you're driving into the sunset and that that line I thought was kind of true to life, both when you're on a road trip and then also whenever you are coming to the end of your, your life. The driving into the sunset, the drive home always seems so long, and so I once I wrote that song I was like that's going to be the title track for this album and kind of the theme of the whole album is life beginning middle end.
Speaker 2:And so Good Old Days is a song reminiscing about the good old days and times that we had whenever we were kids. And I mentioned in the second verse playing gigs with Joey and Taylor that was my cousin, and the bass player that was in that band, felix. And then the other one is playing drums with fever dream with Matt on the guitar that was my friend that was in there talking about where we came from. And then you know other songs, like like your last. That's about a cousin of my wife's that left us too early and it was just a total surprise and just like you don't love the people that you are around and that you love while you're here. And so I noticed the theme of several of the songs that I had written and kind of put them all together in in the album as kind of like a package not not necessarily like a like a tribute to life.
Speaker 1:Tribute to life, I mean, you know the bin. I love all that, from the beginning of the sunrise to the sunset, and we're all on such a journey and we all sometimes forget to stop and think about it too, where we've started and where we are and where we're going to be. So, yeah, I mean, I've listened to this album and it's great, and I love being able to now know more of the background of it. Excuse me and that's one of the things I do like to ask too it's like you know, tell me about, you know where all the inspiration came from, so that one got me once again amazed.
Speaker 2:Amazed is one of the other ones. That was from those five songs that I wrote on the mountain, which that one's more just kind of like about appreciating creation and being out on the mountain, which that one's more just kind of like about appreciating creation and being out, and so that that's. There's still three more that are kind of out there that I'm not sure when they'll come out, but cool.
Speaker 2:And then your latest album a year later, just over a year, yeah, just a little over a year. So with that, I I have learned over the years as well that putting a time limit on things kind of helps putting a deadline, or else I'm just going to keep tweaking and I'm going to keep adding and be like oh, banjo would sound cool here, or I can add this here, or this I've just finished this song. Now I've got to record it and put it on there, right. So once I had finished the road and and finished the recording and had the set date, I already had a couple songs that I had either finished or weren't quite done that I thought maybe would go but but didn't make the cut, not because they weren't good enough, but you know, maybe I didn't finish writing them.
Speaker 2:Like time, which is the new album still kind of the same same thing you can see from the Road it's about time and how time escapes us and live in the now and all that. That was one I was working on at the time of the Road and just wasn't quite finished. So I finally was just like here's the deadline, cut it off. These are the songs that are going to be on there, finish mixing those and I've said I want it out around this time, and so that's when that came out, and so I had songs already in the works whenever the road was finished and just continued working on those, and the last couple of years have just been really prolific in writing. For me, I don't. Maybe it's just looking for it more and or maybe it's just snagging those ideas when they come, which I've heard people say to like. Well, if it's really good, you won't forget it.
Speaker 2:If it's a really good melody, then it's going to be memorable, like it's going to be stuck in your head, right, and I think that's true to a point. But also I have heard a melody and I'll just grab my phone and do a quick voice note or a video or something and I come back to it later and I was like, yeah, that is really good, I need to do something with that. And I don't know that I necessarily would have remembered it, you know, and there's so much floating around in our heads all the time with busyness and all that.
Speaker 2:So doing that and being more diligent about writing down ideas when they come to me, or singing melodies or playing chord progressions and I kind of started that at the beginning of this year too I wanted to try to write like a verse or a chorus or a progression or some part of a song every day, and I don't. I haven't necessarily done that. I started pretty strong at the first of the year, but we know how and before we go any further the name of the year, but we know how.
Speaker 1:That's right. And, and before we go any further, the name of the album is a place called progress. Yes, right, let's not forget that part, which is another absolute, um beautiful songs. On this one as well. Um, yeah, I like you have. You have a single out. I gotta fly. I happen to like that one too yeah and the and the single, the uh song. Not the single, but the song that you worked on with cinta, which was which one faith that was yeah, yeah. How was it working with cintel?
Speaker 2:oh, it was great. I just I had the, I had the core, I had the song done and I was like man, I wanted it to really have this you know old-timey gospel feel with some folk in there, you know, and I was like centel's just got the voice for it. And so I sent him just the basic part of that and said, hey, would you want to sing on this? And I thought he was just going to send me either just the melody or you know whatever. He sent me a track, you know had like four different ones.
Speaker 2:Now, in the beginning of that song where it's, you know, it's kind of EQ and it's got the old timey kind of piano in there and it's got an organ and I sang, I think, three parts myself, you know bass, and then the melody, and then a higher part, and then I had my wife sing a part above that and then a middle part above me as well, and then my daughter actually doubled those parts as well. So it's got me, my wife, my daughter and Sintel on that first part of just a chorus that comes in with that kind of old-timey sound. I was trying to make it sound like a choir.
Speaker 2:Oh that's cool, so there's probably 30 different tracks just in the intro of mostly vocals to make it. I was trying to make it sound like a choir. Oh, that's cool. Oh, that's even probably 30 different tracks just in the intro of mostly vocals. So I sent that to centel and was like hey, here's all these parts, sing what you know, let me know what you think. If you want to be a part of it, cool. If not, fine, I understand. And he sent me that back, you know. A couple weeks later he was like sorry for the delay. I was like I was super quick, you know. A couple of weeks later it was like sorry for the delay. I was like, oh, super quick, you know, and these are great. So I just plugged it in on the intro and then on each one of the choruses.
Speaker 1:Oh, very cool. Oh wow, that is really awesome. You want to take your music full time.
Speaker 2:That would be the goal?
Speaker 2:Yeah, for sure, and in whatever, whatever aspect, that is, if I was just a songwriter and nobody ever knew my name, that's fine you know, if I could write songs and people say I like that song, I want to sing it, I'm like, go for it, make a deal, wow, and you can put your name on it, oh cool. I want to inspire people. I want to write lyrics that have meaning and that people can connect with and feel have they have something in common with the person that's singing this or the person that wrote this, right? So if that's what it is and I can sit and write songs every single day by myself and co-write and make a living, You'll be a happy man.
Speaker 2:Super happy and if that means that, or if, if, if I could just record and I can make enough money from Patreon and Facebook, tiktok, instagram the pennies that they give us and Spotify and.
Speaker 2:Amazon and everything else. You know I have a big hit song or whatever, Cool, that's great. Or you know, like when we talked earlier I mentioned Oliver Anthony, if one of these videos that I do or something one of my songs or videos just takes off and it goes, you know, crazy, then yeah, there you go, Kind of hold on for the ride and hope that it lasts more than a year or so.
Speaker 1:I'm definitely think that you certainly are on your way and you definitely are doing all things the right way, that is for sure, with your beautiful music. Let me ask you this question what advice would you give a new indie artist these days starting out in the business?
Speaker 2:I would say just be genuine and that I think that that's something I try to do, even if it doesn't get you instant popularity or, you know, like that superstar status really quick. I think you know Oliver Anthony, he's been himself. He was standing in the woods singing a song outside of his trailer in west virginia or wherever he's from. West wv radio was the the channel that put him out. But you know, he's one of the most genuine guys and he, I think, has stayed that way and he's said I don't want people paying, you know, 50 or 100 for tickets to my concerts. I want people, real people that enjoy my music, to be able to come, and I think that that really conveys to a consumer, to a fan, whatever you want to call it. You know, be that genuine person and be different. You know, don't just take on this mold of Taylor Swift or any of the others that throw four chords together and sing a simple melody over it you know that's going to be a hit whenever she puts it out.
Speaker 2:Exactly I listened to her most recent album and I was like these songs all kind of sound the same and it's honestly kind of boring. She's a great singer, songwriter and all that and and a personality is a as a star. But you know, be, be yourself, be genuine and just work hard at it and and do the best that you can and go from there.
Speaker 1:I like that Absolutely. Oh my gosh, is there anything else that you'd like to share that I haven't touched on? Like where everybody can find you?
Speaker 2:Facebook. Instagram. Facebook's Bone Locker of course. Instagram, bone Locker Music all one word. Facebook's Bone Locker, of course. Instagram Bone Locker Music all one word. And TikTok's Bone Locker Music. Youtube Bone Locker Music. I've got a Patreon you can check out as well. I offer songwriting help for people that are either budding singers, songwriters, or just want to co-write or need some help getting unstuck. You know I've been doing it for quite a long time. I've got some tips and tricks that might can help you.
Speaker 2:So if you sign up under the $10 tier on Patreon, then you know we can do a zoom thing and, and you know, once, once a month or something like that, work out a songwriting class, I guess, or, you know, music lessons, whatever you want to do with the time that I can give you on that. So, Patreon, if you want to subscribe to that, I've got, uh, spotify, amazon, anywhere you listen to music, youtube music, all those. You just search Bone Locker and I'm the only one on there.
Speaker 1:Yes, you are. I like that Absolutely. So I know you just finished an album, but you have another album in the works, or what's next? What? What can you share with us?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so again, uh, with the finishing of this one, there were songs I was working on that just weren't quite finished or needed some polishing. So I do. I've got five written for the next album, like completely done, not recorded. I'm trying to think of any of those. No, I haven't recorded much of any of those and I've also decided to put out an album of story songs, which is something that I've enjoyed, you know, with people Bob Dylan, willie Nelson, john Prine just storytelling James Taylor, all any of those like singer songwriters, especially from the seventies and eighties, that just tell a great story in their song.
Speaker 2:So I have six that I've written for like a little EP that I'm going to put out. That is all going to be just stories and it's kind of in two parts. The first three is songs about family members and then the next three are songs that are stories that are true but with some embellishments, either things that I have personally experienced or seen or people that I know that have gone through something, and I'll I'll give you a heads up. One of them is called he's still at war and I'm going to put it. It's almost done being recorded and I'm going to put it out as a single on veterans day coming day, oh, coming November.
Speaker 2:Oh, how cool, congratulations Come out in November and it's about, you know, a guy that goes to war. I kind of had in my mind like Vietnam vets when they came back from the war to so much hate like totally different than it is now, where I think by and large most people appreciate the military and their service, which I absolutely do. I've got lots of friends that are in the military Clovis, where I grew up, air Force Town and you know we had lots of military friends there, love and appreciate them for what they do. And so this song follows a guy coming back from war and it kind of alludes to the fact that his wife has left him, comes back to an empty home and doesn't know what he's living for anymore.
Speaker 2:You know, war is kind of all he knew. And so this the song is even though you know he's home, he's still at war, this war inside of himself. So we'll put that out on Veterans Day this year as kind of a tribute to oh, that's awesome, that's great.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh, chris, you you do do a lot. Oh my gosh, oh, wow, well, I'm so, so happy to be able to speak to you and get to know you in this conversation. Um, cause I, like I said I've I followed you for a lot of people appreciate that part, so that'd be really cool. And the beautiful song for Veterans Day. Thank you, that really is great. Yeah, that's great, chris. Thank you so much. I appreciate you being here. I look forward to following you and finding all your reels and TikToks and everything else that goes along with it. So, thank you very much.
Speaker 2:Awesome. Thank you so much. Appreciate you.
